“Human beings need to struggle.”
So says All That Remains bandleader and vocalist Phil Labonte. The man knows of what he speaks.
Labonte has faced many obstacles, including a heart-breaking tragedy, over the last six years between late 2018, when ATR released their last album, Victim of the New Disease, and early 2025, which marks the arrival of their long-awaited 10th studio LP, Antifragile.
Today, aside from Labonte and guitarist Mike Martin, the band has an entirely different lineup. Some members came, left and rejoined. Most profoundly, in 2018, OG lead guitarist Oli Herbert was found dead at the edge of a pond on his Stafford Springs, Connecticut, property. He was just 44. To this day, the case remains an open investigation.
Jason Richardson (formerly of Chelsea Grin and Born of Osiris) eventually stepped into Herbert’s place, first as a touring member, then as full-time lead guitarist. But the COVID-19 pandemic soon halted whatever momentum All That Remains were restarting.
In 2022, once the live music circuit finally reopened, the group went on a triumphant anniversary tour for The Fall of Ideals, celebrating the belated 15th birthday of their breakthrough 2006 album, one of American metalcore’s landmark records.
More major change was on the way, however. For Labonte personally, he started co-hosting and doing production for Tim Pool’s Timcast IRL podcast, a gig that has made the already-politically-outspoken singer even more of a target of online hate. As for All That Remains, the band amicably parted ways with their former record label, despite owing them one more album. In spring 2024, the five-piece — rounded out by bassist Matt Deis and drummer Anthony Barone — announced that they’d stepped out on their own and set up their own independent label, the aptly named All That Remains Records.
When Revolver reaches Labonte in early January to discuss the label’s debut release, Antifragile, the vocalist is feeling invigorated by everything he and his bandmates have overcome, rather than beaten down by all the challenges. Fittingly, this is exactly what the new record is about.
“I wanted something that was actually a positive, uplifting concept,” explains Labonte. “I think that’s what Antifragile is — it’s recognizing that the struggles that we go through in life are actually what make us stronger.
“People need a purpose. Just hanging out on the beach drinking margaritas, that’s not good enough. There’s more old sayings that amount to ‘the joy is in the journey as opposed to the destination’ than you can shake a stick at, but it’s true.”
Forged in the hard-fought journey of recent years, All That Remains’ new LP is a bona fide barnburner, evoking the defining sounds of the early Aughts Western Massachusetts metalcore scene that the band sprouted from, but with modern touches — from the technical guitar playing to the finely polished vocal hooks. Highlights like “Kerosene,” “Let You Go,” “Poison It” and “Cut Their Tongues Out” will melt your speakers.
Labonte chats with us from the couch in his apartment in West Virginia (though he still keeps his main residence in his longtime home of New Hampshire), with his affectionate gray pit bull Jango (yes, named after the badass Star Wars bounty hunter) on his lap. We dive into lyrical themes, metal/country crossover, dissenting political opinions and more.
Since Victim of the New Disease, there have been a lot of changes for All That Remains. What was the biggest challenge over the last six years to get a new album out?
PHIL LABONTE Yes, there’s a bunch of things that happened. The biggest thing that’s happened to us was Oli passed away… It was a really, really big deal. [Pauses] Oli was the first guy to join All That Remains. Before we had a full band at all. Mike, our guitar player, he came and he tried out and he couldn’t quite play the riffs at the time, and he is like, “You got to talk to my teacher, my instructor.” And so I met Oli, and we hit it off. He’d been with me since the beginning.
And so, when we lost him, there was a big question as to if we could do All That Remains without him, what it means, what is All That Remains without Oli Herbert? How does that look? What is it that we’re doing without the guy that had been around and been such an integral part of the sound of All That Remains? That took a long time to get over and get through.
I recognize that this is a new chapter for the band — but speaking of Oli, after these years that you have had to reflect, can you share something about him or a memory you have of him?
You know… when I think about Oli, it’s like family. I think of the weird things that made us all laugh and stuff, and I don’t really want to divulge too much because I don’t want people to think that I would be trying to embarrass him. But it’s the silly things that people might think are weird that I loved about him because it was like family. And there were times where Oli would be frustrating to one or two of us and whatever. But you look back now and you laugh.
One of the things that I love to do is, I’ll be looking through old pictures or whatever, and he would just pass out in the weirdest places when we’re traveling. I have a whole folder of Oli just sleeping in these weird, awkward positions — like in airports or in the hotel lobby. I got a picture of Oli just passed out laying in the grass right outside the bus, and it’s like, “Why didn’t you just get on the bus?” He’s like, “I wanted to feel the grass.” [Laughs] And we’re like, “All right, man.”
That’s the stuff that I love to think about when I think about Oli — the weird, quirky things that made him such a unique and special guy.
Jason Richardson is with you guys now. It seems you two really click when it comes to making music. Why is that? He’s just a cyborg on guitar.
[Laughs] Oh yeah, he’s a computer program. Inside of his head, it’s just ones and zeros. That’s it. I’ve hung out with the kid a lot and I’m like, “He is just a robot.”
The one thing that’s really, really cool about Richardson’s playing is… he’s got such a deep and vast knowledge of music theory and stuff, [so] he can take a small idea and really expand on it. We can hand him two riffs and be like, “Hey, what do you…” And he’ll come up with six or seven different parts that we can use throughout the song and their variations or whatever.
If you get a little idea and then you bring it to someone that knows music theory, the idea isn’t just the idea, it opens relationships with other scales and things like that in the key, or how you can move it to a different key or whatever. They’re all just doors you can open and experiment with. It’s really great to work with someone like that. That’s part of why I think we get along so well.
That was one of the things that Oli was great at, and I think that that’s one of the things that Jason shares with him. Jason can execute, obviously. He’s a player that’s world-class, but he’s also knowledgeable in a way that’s world-class, as well.
In addition to All That Remains’ new members, Jason and drummer Anthony Barone, an old member — bassist Matt Deis — has rejoined the band, as well. What’s it like to have him back in the mix?
It’s great. So, when Matt left in 2005, he didn’t leave on bad terms with us. He got the opportunity to play for CKY. He was a big fan. He loved that band, he loved the stuff that they were doing. [All That Remains’ 2004 second album] This Darkened Heart had just come out or had been out for a little while. The Fall of Ideals hadn’t come out. And so All That Remains was still in a position where it’s like we didn’t know what was going to happen — is this going to fly or not? Darkened had a little bit of success and people started looking at us and being like, “Oh, who’s this?” It wasn’t clear that All That Remains was going to be a career.
So, when he was like, “Hey, I got this opportunity,” we were like, “All right, man. It sucks for us, but we still love you, so OK, we get it.” We kept in touch. He’s from Western Mass., so it’s like he’s a kid from home. It’s nice to have him back because I’ve always liked Matt. We’ve always got along really, really well.
He’s another one, he’s a great musician. He plays piano, he plays bass, and plays guitar. He knows music theory. There was a time where Matt was the second-best musician in All That Remains, but now that he’s come back, he’s the third best. [Laughs]
I have no problem letting him know that. He’s got a great sense of humor so we can poke at Matt and be like, “Man, you left and now you got knocked down to No. 3. How’s that feel?”
You’ve said that, as a lyricist, you find “songs about the human condition to be the most compelling.” With that in mind, can we each pick a new song and talk about the lyrics? The new song “Kerosene” stands out to me.
Sure. So, “Kerosene” was written right after the October 7th attacks in Israel, and it was my outsider interpretation of the fighting going on between the Palestinians and the Israelis. If you listen to both sides, they both have their own narrative and they both have their own way of understanding. Because of that, both sides have their own way of understanding it. And it’s a feud that goes back a long time. If you get really deep into it, it goes back a lot longer than just the creation of Israel — it’s not just 1948, it’s something that goes back thousands of years.
As long as they can’t identify and agree to acknowledge the other side as at least something valid, then you’re just going to see more of this. There’s a line, and it’s the line in the chorus, “when words are just kerosene” — it’s just the way that people say things is like just throwing gas on a fire. It was really, really rough to hear about what actually happened on October 7th because it was a real bad day. And that’s an understatement. [Pauses]
I was reminded of the [2015 terrorist attack during an Eagles of Death Metal concert at the Paris venue] Bataclan, to be honest with you, because of the [massacre at the] Nova Music Festival that was going on. You were seeing a lot of stuff, and I couldn’t help but think of the Bataclan. I knew people that were at the Bataclan. And even if it was people that I didn’t know, people I knew knew people that were at the Bataclan.
I think we wrote [“Kerosene”] the weekend after [October 7th] happened. I was in L.A. with [producer] Josh [Wilbur], and we just started talking about it. Just the conversation was flowing, and we were like, “We could turn this into a song.” I’m actually really proud of the way it came out.
Yeah. It’s very emotional to think these events — especially since they involved innocent people who were just enjoying live music. That’s a powerful one. I bet your choice is not as much of a downer.
We could talk about “Cut Their Tongues Out.” [Laughs] That was pretty angry…
The first song that we did for the record was “Divine.” Jason delivered the music, and me and Josh just got together and we started talking about what I wanted the message to be [of the album to be]. I didn’t want the whole record to have a downer vibe because it was the first thing that we had done since COVID. Everybody had just been so beaten down with two years of lockdowns and fighting and so many people pointing fingers at each other.
And so “Divine” was trying to articulate a feeling that you get or that I get when everything’s firing on all cylinders, when you’re doing whatever it is that you love and you know you’re competent and you know how to do it. People in the sporting world, they’ll call it “being in the zone.” Like when Michael Jordan was crushing and he couldn’t miss. I remember the clip. He had just done an amazing three-pointer, and he turned and he looked at Phil [Jackson], the coach, and he’s just like, “I don’t know, I just can’t miss.”
“Divine” is a little piece of divinity that you get to have just for a minute because you’ve put all the effort into learning how to do whatever you’re embarking on. You are supremely competent and so the outcome is not in question.
That aligns with the mission statement of Antifragile, right? Whatever makes you feel fulfilled. Another thing I think that fits that theme is you guys went independent. Why did you decide to go that route?
There was the option of going with labels and possibly getting a licensing deal through a label, but I really liked the idea of owning it ourselves outright without having to deal with a lot of the negative that comes with a label. Nowadays, a label really is just an advertising house, and there are benefits to that, sure.
If you’re a young band, man, I get why you’d want to go with a label. For All That Remains, this is our 10th release. We’ve got a history. We did the Fall of Ideals anniversary tour and people were coming to hear songs from a record that came out now almost 20 years ago. We’re super fortunate that we’ve had that kind of impact and people still care. But if you don’t have that catalog and you don’t have that history, man, it’s got to be really hard to be like, “Hey, we have to find some way to break through and get people’s attention.” That’s a tall order.
I want to back it up for a second. On 2017’s Madness, you did a cover of Garth Brooks’ “The Thunder Rolls,” which went gold. In today’s music landscape, there’s so much metal and country crossover. Could you see yourself doing another country cover?
There is. Oh, I definitely could see us doing another country cover. That’s about all I’m going to say about that.
Do you have a favorite crossover artist or song that you’re enjoying?
I thought the Mitchell Tenpenny song [“Demon or Ghost”] with Underoath was really cool.
I want to change directions to your other gig, which is co-hosting and doing production for Timcast IRL with Tim Pool. How did you two link up?
Twitter. I watched some of his stuff when he was covering Occupy Wall Street back in 2013. And then I started watching Tim’s daily stuff. He would just make a video, basically just turn the camera on and film himself.
I started moving away from the legacy media because [they] didn’t really represent things that I found compelling. Right after 9/11, I became a news junkie. I wanted to know why it happened, what was happening, et cetera, et cetera. I started watching more stuff on the internet because YouTube started to gain some traction and I would just find people that were talking about the things that I cared about. Tim was one of those guys.
Around 2016, I started interacting with Tim on Twitter and then he invited me to be a guest on IRL because of the band. Then one day he called me and he’s like, “Hey, can you come down and do the show? We’ve got Alex Jones, and I want you to help rein him in.” And I was like, “No problem.” So, I went down there and Alex Jones, he starts saying some crazy shit. And I just am like, “Yeah, yeah, this is why I’m here!” [Laughs] And the clip went fairly viral, and people got a kick out of it. After that, Tim was like, “What are you doing?” I was like, “It was awesome.” He was like, “Yeah, it was awesome, but I thought you were going to rein him in.” I was like, “Nooo, I wasn’t going to rein him in ever, at all. The crazier he is, the more entertaining I find it.” So, we hit it off and became friends.
In February of 2023, Tim was doing a daytime livestream and was talking about getting someone to fill in when he wasn’t there… I gave him a ring and he is like, “You’d have to move down here to be around enough.” I was like, “Yeah, I can do that. I’m not tied to one place because I’m not married. Me and the dog can grab an apartment down there. It’s not a big deal.” And so I moved down to West Virginia and I’ve been here off and on since, for the past two years.
Obviously, you are a very politically outspoken person. But I don’t think of All That Remains as a political band. Are you trying to keep that separate?
I’ve always tried to do that, and the reason is because All That Remains has always had people with different political opinions. Myself and Jeanne Sagan, our [former] bass player, we had some pretty distinct political opinions. Jason Richardson and I have very distinct political differences of opinion. And I have never, in my entire life, I’ve never thought politics is a reason to stop being friends with someone. So, for me, it was just like, “Look, I can’t get onstage and preach.” I think the most political thing I’ve ever done at an All That Remains show is I wore a Ron Paul shirt in 2012 and that’s about it.
Oh, and I think back when I would indulge in marijuana, I think Colorado had just legalized marijuana and I made a remark. I was like, “Good to see Colorado has legalized marijuana.” Of course, obviously nowadays that’s not at all in any way controversial.
There are guys in the band that are right on the same page with me, there are guys in the band that aren’t at all on the same page with me. That’s normal in my opinion. If you don’t have friends that you disagree with, I feel like that’s abnormal.
Would you say that we live in a time where it’s hard to have a dissenting opinion?
I think we did. I think that’s changing. Mark Zuckerberg just yesterday came out and doubled down on a speech that he made about five years ago about the free exchange of ideas.
I think at the end of the day, everybody in America has more common than they have difference. And I think that the impulse to push people to look at their neighbors as their enemy, I think that that has run its course and I think most Americans are tired of it.
I think that that’s going to be something that you’re going to see more and more of people saying, “Look, maybe Mark Zuckerberg is right. Maybe we should actually listen to the people that we disagree with.”
And I think that if people have a certain preconceived notion about my perspective, it’s because they’re listening to what other people say about me. They’re not listening to anything that I’ve said. They’re not listening to my perspective.
I’m very, very much a “live and let live” kind of dude. I don’t have any political opinions that are in any way considerably extreme. They’re very milquetoast. They’re very Nineties Democrat, to be honest with you. I’ve been called a Nazi more times than I can count — and yet at the same time I have been attacked by Nazis as a Jewish shill or a shill for Israel more times than I can count, too. If you’re getting it from both sides, you can’t be that extreme to any of the sides.
In line with your thoughts to the previous question, do you think that cancel culture is going to die?
It’s really on us as the average people to decide if there’s any power to that at all. The thing that happens when people get canceled is someone will say something and will be like, “Oh, this person did this thing that I don’t like.” And then there’s a pile-on on the internet.
And I don’t think that that’s a good thing for society, especially when it’s someone that was intentionally not doing what is ostensibly presented. So, if someone is saying something and they’re not intending to be insulting or divisive or bigoted or whatever, they’re talking about something and it’s not just being callously thrown around, if that’s not the case, then there’s no reason for people to see negative repercussions in their life. If someone’s calling someone else a name or something like that, then maybe it makes sense for a company to say, “We don’t want to associate with you anymore.”
But I do think that the frivolous cancel culture is probably done. And as long as there are people that are going to be trying to use outrage as a way to influence other people’s behavior, I think that there’s always going to be constant outrage. And I think people are kind of done with being constantly outraged. So, at least for a little while. We’ll see.
This interview has been edited and condensed for flow and length.
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